Talk:Emulation: Difference between revisions

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=Discussion, ideas, brainstormings goes here=
==Alphabetical order of the table rows in the compatibility lists==
Since some months ago, the tables used in the compatibility lists uses the "sortable" feature (see [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Sorting 1] and [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Sorting 2]) and is relativelly easy to find the game names incorrectly ordered. The proceure to check if the order is right is:
#) Reload the page (just incase you had the page already loaded and you was clicking in the sorting arrows, by reloading the page we are resetting all he columns sortings to defaults)
#) Click in the arrow at top of the "Name" column and see if some of the horizontal rows have moved. If one or more rows was moved it means that rows are incorrectly ordered<br>
The procedure to fix it is pretty much the same, the trick is to keep attention at how mediawiki is reordering them when we click in the arrows:
#) Click in "edit" in one of the page sections
#) Click in the arrow at top of the "Name" column
#) Move the problematic rows up/down by copypasting them
#) Update the sortings by clicking in "show preview"<br>
In the long tables (bigger than your vertical screen size) is needed to repeat it a few times to realize which row is the culprit and where needs to be relocated. The final confirmation that all the rows has been correctly ordered is if we click in the "Name" arrow and all the rows '''stays in his position''' (this means the order how are written in the page matches with the sorting methods used internally by mediawiki software)--[[User:Sandungas|Sandungas]] ([[User talk:Sandungas|talk]]) 12:53, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
 
==Discussion, ideas, brainstormings goes here==
No hurry this rebuilding take days, weeks or more in the way i see, at this day (october 7 2017) the emulation frontpage and talk pages has been splitted and cleaned up completly, the reason for this carnage is because i think is better to start from scratch without any restriction in how are going to look and his purposes, there are a lot fo details needed to be mentioned but this is just an introductory explain of the discussion that goes under this line, feel free to join the party by giving your ideas and oppinions and help to solve the problems
No hurry this rebuilding take days, weeks or more in the way i see, at this day (october 7 2017) the emulation frontpage and talk pages has been splitted and cleaned up completly, the reason for this carnage is because i think is better to start from scratch without any restriction in how are going to look and his purposes, there are a lot fo details needed to be mentioned but this is just an introductory explain of the discussion that goes under this line, feel free to join the party by giving your ideas and oppinions and help to solve the problems


==Bringing back some moved texts==
===Bringing back some moved texts===
Probably there are lot of small sentences or sections that has been moved to the other pages... but could fit well here because are general concepts or could work as an introduction... the rule of gold now is this page is "noob oriented" and the others are "technically oriented", im not experienced in emulators so much to make this changes rewriting and moving texts back and forth and i fear to "break" something though--[[User:Sandungas|Sandungas]] ([[User talk:Sandungas|talk]]) 13:58, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
Probably there are lot of small sentences or sections that has been moved to the other pages... but could fit well here because are general concepts or could work as an introduction... the rule of gold now is this page is "noob oriented" and the others are "technically oriented", im not experienced in emulators so much to make this changes rewriting and moving texts back and forth and i fear to "break" something though--[[User:Sandungas|Sandungas]] ([[User talk:Sandungas|talk]]) 13:58, 7 October 2017 (UTC)


==Wiki main page templates restructuring==
===Wiki navigation tables/lists for emulation frontpage===
I think we need a new template on main page for the game compatibility lists, right now are inside a "reverse engineering" category and thats not right. Additionally we have the page OFW2CFW game compatibility list that doesnt fits in any other category... so in few words we need a '''<nowiki>{{Games}}</nowiki>''' template for the main page with his own category... or something like that (any idea is welcome)--[[User:Sandungas|Sandungas]] ([[User talk:Sandungas|talk]]) 13:58, 7 October 2017 (UTC)<br>
I been doing some preparations for an important change related with the game configs, the problem is we have been publishing the configs in general pages (like "PS2 Emulation"), or in talk pages (like in PS4 wiki), and even inside the compatibility lists (like the ones inside "PSP Emulator Compatibility List"), and all that has been bad practises, also the long lists with configs increases the page sizes a lot, the best solution i see is to create new pages dedicated to the configs, the first experiment has been made with the PSP configs, see [https://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/index.php?title=PSP_Configs&diff=61654&oldid=61653 this snapshot] (it have 65 configs and a page size of 15.000 characters), i prepared 2 templates <nowiki>{{boxcode}} and {{boxcodelite}}</nowiki> for them, as an initial design imo is fine, the configs are well organized and there is lot of room to add descriptions at left about what the config does, it also allows to display examples with the dissassembled code, etc... but there is a huge problem... in long term (and specially in the pages dedicated to the PS2 configs) is going to be needed to add hundreds of configs... is needed to keep an eye at the total page sizes later, but by now we can use the 250.000 characters of the "PS2 classic emulator compatibility list" as a reference of how much we can increase them in size, i dont know whats the limit but lets say 400.000 or 500.000 probably are not going to make wiki to explode... anyway... another problem derivated from this huge amount of configs displayed in the same page is the TOC (at top of the page) is going to become excesivelly annoying... and the only solution to that is to use the magic word <nowiki>__NOTOC__</nowiki>... yeah... pretty much like what the compatibility list does where we need to navigate the page with the <nowiki>{{jumptoletter}}</nowiki> template... so im thinking in using an style a bit similar than the compatibility pages using the <nowiki>{{jumptoletter}}</nowiki>... but this presents a new problem we cant "jump" in between different sections of the page for "official" or "custom" configs... so... the best solution (that also is very preventive because allows to add more conffigs) is to split them in specific pages... a page for "PSP Official Configs" and other for "PSP Custom Configs" (and the PS2 pages for configs will follow the same rule... not sure yet what to do with the net/gx/soft versions of the officials though)--[[User:Sandungas|Sandungas]] ([[User talk:Sandungas|talk]]) 05:27, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
 
{{Navbox
|name      = Games
|title      = [[Games]]
|image      = [[File:Icon_category_game.png|50px|link=|alt=]]
|listclass  = hlist
|state      = uncollapsed
 
|group1    = PS1
|list1    = {{Navbox subgroup
  |group1  =
  |list1    = {{Navbox subgroup
  |list1  = [[PS1 Classics Emulator Compatibility List]]{{dot}}[[PS1 Custom Patches]]
  }}
}}
 
|group2    = PS2
|list2    = {{Navbox subgroup
  |group1  =
  |list1    = {{Navbox subgroup
  |list1  = [[PS2 Classics Emulator Compatibility List]]{{dot}}[[PS2 Custom Configs]]
  }}
}}
 
|group3    = PS3
|list3    = {{Navbox subgroup
  |group1  =
  |list1    = {{Navbox subgroup
  |list1  = [[CFW2OFW Compatibility List]]
  }}
}}
 
|group4    = PSP
|list4    = {{Navbox subgroup
  |group1  =
  |list1    = {{Navbox subgroup
  |list1  = [[PSP Emulator Compatibility List]]{{dot}}[[PSP Configs]] ---needs to be splitted into---> [[PSP Official Configs]] and [[PSP Custom Configs]]
  }}
}}
 
}}
 
==Wiki navigation tables/lists for emulation frontpage==


*ps1_emu.self
*ps1_emu.self
Line 91: Line 57:
**savedata format/path    - ?
**savedata format/path    - ?
**technical page          - [[PS2 Emulation]]
**technical page          - [[PS2 Emulation]]
**game compatibility list  - NEEDED
**game compatibility list  - https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_and_PlayStation_2_games_compatible_with_PlayStation_3.html


*ps2_gxemu.self
*ps2_gxemu.self
Line 100: Line 66:
**savedata format/path    - ?
**savedata format/path    - ?
**technical page          - [[PS2 Emulation]]
**technical page          - [[PS2 Emulation]]
**game compatibility list  - NEEDED
**game compatibility list  - https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_and_PlayStation_2_games_compatible_with_PlayStation_3.html


*ps2_softemu.self
*ps2_softemu.self
Line 137: Line 103:
**technical page          - [[PSP Emulation]]
**technical page          - [[PSP Emulation]]
**game compatibility list  - Needed ? (for minis ?)
**game compatibility list  - Needed ? (for minis ?)
==PS2 Config Commands splitting==
I think is about time to split the [[PS2 Emulation#Config Commands]] (currently a page section) into a dedicated page named [[PS2 Config Commands]] that could be included in [[Template:Reverse engineering]] (next to [[PS2 Emulation]]). The [[Template:Boxcomm]] used currently was a temporal visual fix to avoid a massive TOC in [[PS2 Emulation]] but in the dedicated page we will not need it (there is another named [[Template:Boxtip1]] [[Template:Boxtip2]] [[Template:Boxtip3]] more handy to include some "noob friendly" descriptions), every command will be a page section (and we will be able to read the complete list of comand names in the TOC, edit them individually, and see the changelog in the "recent changes" page indiividually too). The new page doesnt needs to be composed as a single list of commands '''only''' (page sections), we can create many other sections as example to prepare some kind of intro/tutorial of related stuf (even the tools used to dissasembly, or the tricks used to debug in PC emulators), or use other alternative names for the page name like "The PS2 Config Workshop", comment below with your suggestions. This splitting also implyes we need to move the speculative/unconfirmed info from the old talk page to the new talk page --[[User:Sandungas|Sandungas]] ([[User talk:Sandungas|talk]]) 08:34, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
== PS2 Classics Emulator Compatibility List ==
I'm posting here as [[Talk:PS2 Classics Emulator Compatibility List]] is not open for new topics.
Anyhow, [[PS2 Classics Emulator Compatibility List]]'s categories of ((ps2classic)) and ((playable)) say **It works exactly like when you play it on a real PS2 Console**, but this is absolutely not true. There are bugs in several official netemu games, bugs that are even noted on the compatibility list. Furthermore, the netemu doesn't even support mipmaps, which means any games using mipmaps by definition cannot work exactly as on a real PS2. Currently, 11.67% of PS2 games are marked as ((minorissues)), but with more serious scrutiny this figure should be higher.
Here is how I would rewrite the senior two categories:
<big>((ps2classic))</big>
Released for the PS3 in the PlayStation Store, the compatibility is certified by Sony.
'''Generally, it works exactly like when you play it on a real PS2 Console.'''
<big>((playable))</big>
Works perfect without any noticeable error.
'''It works exactly like when you play it on a real PS2 Console,''' the compatibility is at least as good as ((ps2classic))
* Hi, this has been brought up several times in the past by other people. It does not make logical sense to have such strict conditions on compatibility. For example, Silent Hill 2 *without* config would most definitely qualify for ((minorissues)) due to continual character flickering, graphical errors, math inaccuracies, etc. The config fixes all of these issues. Switching it to ((minorissues)) due to one door's graphical glitch in a room in the middle of the game would just not make sense. Additionally, GTA:SA's custom config only adds the pressure sensitive buttons. It does not change anything else, so the glitches you are stating would be version agnostic and not directly relating to the custom config. For GTA III, an additional config command was taken from the ps2_gxemu config to fix some text flashing as the US PS2 Classic already has an issue related to this, so this may cause the game to work a little differently for sure. Which version of GTA III did you test with the custom config? --[[User:Mrjaredbeta|Mrjaredbeta]] ([[User talk:Mrjaredbeta|talk]]) 15:19, 29 September 2024 (CEST)
** Hello. In my testing, the San Fierro fog issue and tree transparency issue did not appear with the stock config; this could of course entirely be the renderer being picky with the time of day. Additionally, based on YouTube footage uploaded by SuperMegaGta, the San Andreas graphical bugs (sans the polygon gaps) do not appear on the PSN version, which makes it possible that the PSN ISO was modified by Sony/Rockstar to accommodate the netemu (the hash is certainly different from my own BIN.ENC's). There is an additional graphical bug in my testing that does not appear on the PSN version: colour banding. I experienced heavy colour banding, which was especially noticeable on helicopter searchlights and the night sky. As for GTA III, I used the NTSC v1.40 ISO. - [[User:Editor 1|Editor 1]] 14:03, 29 September 2024 (GMT) '''EDIT:''' I have now installed the PSN version and tested it, and I encountered the San Fierro fog issue during the morning. I did not encounter the tree transparency issue. I have confirmed that the colour banding issue I mentioned before affects the PSN version as well; does the netemu support dithering? San Andreas originally ran in a low colour depth on PS2 and required dithering to smooth the gradients out.

Latest revision as of 16:45, 29 September 2024

Alphabetical order of the table rows in the compatibility lists[edit source]

Since some months ago, the tables used in the compatibility lists uses the "sortable" feature (see 1 and 2) and is relativelly easy to find the game names incorrectly ordered. The proceure to check if the order is right is:

  1. ) Reload the page (just incase you had the page already loaded and you was clicking in the sorting arrows, by reloading the page we are resetting all he columns sortings to defaults)
  2. ) Click in the arrow at top of the "Name" column and see if some of the horizontal rows have moved. If one or more rows was moved it means that rows are incorrectly ordered

The procedure to fix it is pretty much the same, the trick is to keep attention at how mediawiki is reordering them when we click in the arrows:

  1. ) Click in "edit" in one of the page sections
  2. ) Click in the arrow at top of the "Name" column
  3. ) Move the problematic rows up/down by copypasting them
  4. ) Update the sortings by clicking in "show preview"

In the long tables (bigger than your vertical screen size) is needed to repeat it a few times to realize which row is the culprit and where needs to be relocated. The final confirmation that all the rows has been correctly ordered is if we click in the "Name" arrow and all the rows stays in his position (this means the order how are written in the page matches with the sorting methods used internally by mediawiki software)--Sandungas (talk) 12:53, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Discussion, ideas, brainstormings goes here[edit source]

No hurry this rebuilding take days, weeks or more in the way i see, at this day (october 7 2017) the emulation frontpage and talk pages has been splitted and cleaned up completly, the reason for this carnage is because i think is better to start from scratch without any restriction in how are going to look and his purposes, there are a lot fo details needed to be mentioned but this is just an introductory explain of the discussion that goes under this line, feel free to join the party by giving your ideas and oppinions and help to solve the problems

Bringing back some moved texts[edit source]

Probably there are lot of small sentences or sections that has been moved to the other pages... but could fit well here because are general concepts or could work as an introduction... the rule of gold now is this page is "noob oriented" and the others are "technically oriented", im not experienced in emulators so much to make this changes rewriting and moving texts back and forth and i fear to "break" something though--Sandungas (talk) 13:58, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Wiki navigation tables/lists for emulation frontpage[edit source]

  • ps1_emu.self
    • available for PS3 models - all
    • available in firmwares - since 1.02
    • game format - original CD inserted in the drive
    • savedata format (hdd) - dev_hdd0/savedata/vmc/<virtual_memcard>.VM1
    • savedata format (usb) - dev_usb0/PS3/EXPORT/PSV/<Save_ID>.PSV
    • savedata format (mc) - mc_root/ (by using a memory card adapter)
    • technical page - PS1 Emulation
    • game compatibility list - NEEDED
  • ps1_netemu.self
    • available for PS3 models - all (PS1 classics)
    • available in firmwares - since 1.70
    • game format - ISO.BIN.EDAT (officially), BIN/CUE (unofficially)
    • savedata format (hdd) - ?
    • savedata format (usb) - dev_usb0/PSP/SAVEDATA/<SAVEDATA_DIRECTORY>/SCEVMC0.VMP
    • savedata format (mc) - allowed ?
    • technical page - PS1 Emulation
    • game compatibility list - PS1 Classics Emulator Compatibility List
  • ps1_newemu.self
    • available for PS3 models - ?
    • available in firmwares - since 2.10
    • game format - ?
    • savedata format/path - ?
    • technical page - PS1 Emulation
    • game compatibility list - needed ?


  • ps2_softemu.self
    • available for PS3 models - fats/slim newer than CECHC
    • available in firmwares - since 1.90 then blocked in 3.50 and removed in 4.21 ?
    • game format - original CD/DVD inserted in the drive
    • savedata format/path - ?
    • technical page - PS2 Emulation
    • game compatibility list - not needed (abandoned officially and superseded by netemu)
  • ps2_netemu.self
    • available for PS3 models - all (PS2 classics)
    • available in firmwares - since 3.70
    • game format - ISO.BIN.EDAT ISO.BIN.ENC (officially), BIN CUE (unofficially)
    • savedata format/path - APPDIR/USRDIR/SAVEDATA/SCEVMC0.VME and SCEVMC1.VME
    • settings - by using CONFIG files
    • technical page - PS2 Emulation
    • game compatibility list - PS2 Classics Emulator Compatibility List


  • psp_emulator.elf
    • available for PS3 models - all but CECHB ? (PSP Remasters ?)
    • available in firmwares - since 3.15
    • game format - ISO.BIN.EDAT and APPDIR/USRDIR/CONTENT/EBOOT.PBP/DATA.PSAR ? (PSP minis)
    • savedata format (hdd) - dev_hdd0/home/<userid>/minis_savedata/<SAVEDATA_DIRECTORY>/Files
    • savedata format (usb) - dev_usb0/PSP/SAVEDATA/<SAVEDATA_DIRECTORY>/Files
    • savedata format/path - ?
    • technical page - PSP Emulation
    • game compatibility list - PSP Emulator Compatibility List
  • psp_translator.elf
    • available for PS3 models - all but CECHB ? (PSP Minis ?)
    • available in firmwares - since 3.15
    • game format - ?
    • savedata format/path - ?
    • technical page - PSP Emulation
    • game compatibility list - Needed ? (for minis ?)

PS2 Config Commands splitting[edit source]

I think is about time to split the PS2 Emulation#Config Commands (currently a page section) into a dedicated page named PS2 Config Commands that could be included in Template:Reverse engineering (next to PS2 Emulation). The Template:Boxcomm used currently was a temporal visual fix to avoid a massive TOC in PS2 Emulation but in the dedicated page we will not need it (there is another named Template:Boxtip1 Template:Boxtip2 Template:Boxtip3 more handy to include some "noob friendly" descriptions), every command will be a page section (and we will be able to read the complete list of comand names in the TOC, edit them individually, and see the changelog in the "recent changes" page indiividually too). The new page doesnt needs to be composed as a single list of commands only (page sections), we can create many other sections as example to prepare some kind of intro/tutorial of related stuf (even the tools used to dissasembly, or the tricks used to debug in PC emulators), or use other alternative names for the page name like "The PS2 Config Workshop", comment below with your suggestions. This splitting also implyes we need to move the speculative/unconfirmed info from the old talk page to the new talk page --Sandungas (talk) 08:34, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

PS2 Classics Emulator Compatibility List[edit source]

I'm posting here as Talk:PS2 Classics Emulator Compatibility List is not open for new topics.

Anyhow, PS2 Classics Emulator Compatibility List's categories of ((ps2classic)) and ((playable)) say **It works exactly like when you play it on a real PS2 Console**, but this is absolutely not true. There are bugs in several official netemu games, bugs that are even noted on the compatibility list. Furthermore, the netemu doesn't even support mipmaps, which means any games using mipmaps by definition cannot work exactly as on a real PS2. Currently, 11.67% of PS2 games are marked as ((minorissues)), but with more serious scrutiny this figure should be higher.

Here is how I would rewrite the senior two categories:

((ps2classic))

Released for the PS3 in the PlayStation Store, the compatibility is certified by Sony.

Generally, it works exactly like when you play it on a real PS2 Console.


((playable))

Works perfect without any noticeable error.

It works exactly like when you play it on a real PS2 Console, the compatibility is at least as good as ((ps2classic))

  • Hi, this has been brought up several times in the past by other people. It does not make logical sense to have such strict conditions on compatibility. For example, Silent Hill 2 *without* config would most definitely qualify for ((minorissues)) due to continual character flickering, graphical errors, math inaccuracies, etc. The config fixes all of these issues. Switching it to ((minorissues)) due to one door's graphical glitch in a room in the middle of the game would just not make sense. Additionally, GTA:SA's custom config only adds the pressure sensitive buttons. It does not change anything else, so the glitches you are stating would be version agnostic and not directly relating to the custom config. For GTA III, an additional config command was taken from the ps2_gxemu config to fix some text flashing as the US PS2 Classic already has an issue related to this, so this may cause the game to work a little differently for sure. Which version of GTA III did you test with the custom config? --Mrjaredbeta (talk) 15:19, 29 September 2024 (CEST)


    • Hello. In my testing, the San Fierro fog issue and tree transparency issue did not appear with the stock config; this could of course entirely be the renderer being picky with the time of day. Additionally, based on YouTube footage uploaded by SuperMegaGta, the San Andreas graphical bugs (sans the polygon gaps) do not appear on the PSN version, which makes it possible that the PSN ISO was modified by Sony/Rockstar to accommodate the netemu (the hash is certainly different from my own BIN.ENC's). There is an additional graphical bug in my testing that does not appear on the PSN version: colour banding. I experienced heavy colour banding, which was especially noticeable on helicopter searchlights and the night sky. As for GTA III, I used the NTSC v1.40 ISO. - Editor 1 14:03, 29 September 2024 (GMT) EDIT: I have now installed the PSN version and tested it, and I encountered the San Fierro fog issue during the morning. I did not encounter the tree transparency issue. I have confirmed that the colour banding issue I mentioned before affects the PSN version as well; does the netemu support dithering? San Andreas originally ran in a low colour depth on PS2 and required dithering to smooth the gradients out.
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